I'm having a discussion with a guildie about kara group composition. We all more or less beginners in kara and the raids tend to wipe more than I think they should. Sometimes we just cannot continue to the next boss, its that bad. The best we did was up to Curator, where we got stuck.
We all have leveling blues, and some have several epics (pve and some pvp). So, kara can upgrade us nicely,
I believe the group should be balanced, with all classes, and a maximum of 2 of the same class. I am asking, what do you guys with experience think?
One raid we had 4 hunters, no mage and no warlocks, and it was bad. Then 3-4 pallys, then 3 rogues and so on. Of course we always have 2 tanks and 2 healers. But I think the imbalance of our raid groups is the cause of our difficulty in kara.
What do you guys think?|||At least 2 AOE, IMO....A lock is definitely needed for ilhoof....different class mixes are sometimes needed for different bosses, depending on how gear and experience you have.|||group make up actually means very little in kara its all down to how your group works together.
the basic "ideal group" for progression would be
tank x2
holy pala
holy priest
resto druid/shaman
hunter x1
mage x 1
lock x 1
shadow priest x1
melee dps x1
with this sort of make up pretty much every boss in kara is easy to do once you learn the fight. if you have a feral tank then you can swap about much easier as past moroes you dont really need 2 tanks and feral; goes kitty until it needs to off tank again.
weve run kara with 4 hunters b4 now in one night, weve had the guild almost in tears b4 now as no mages where on line and still we run and cleared prince aran and bane with a lack of mage and weve done prince with 2 dps warriors feral druid and a rogue as well. once you learn the fight its just down to players doing the right thing at the right time.
for progression you will prob be best of with 3 healers but once you get to grips with the place you can easy clear it all with just 2 healers and no priest shackle at all|||typical make up when i go,
warrior tank
pally tank
holy priest
holy pally or holy priest
resto shammy
mage
lock
hunter
shadow priest
misc dps rogue/warrior/hunter/etc
typically works quite well...|||2 People Who Can Tank Without Being 1-2 Shotted
2-3 Healers Who Can Keep Said Tanks Up (probably 3 healers in your case)
DPS
It honestly doesn't make too huge a difference what you bring. While I will readily admit that bringing 3-4 classes instead of 4 hunters will help you a lot, you could even do it with those 4 hunters for the most part. Some classes will make your life easier at a few bosses though - A priest (or two) will be handy with shackles. A warlock might come in handy clearing to Maiden or at Shade of Aran.
Most of what's plagueing you at the moment is purely the lack of experience and people running around in subpar gear.|||Quote:
2 People Who Can Tank Without Being 1-2 Shotted
2-3 Healers Who Can Keep Said Tanks Up (probably 3 healers in your case)
DPS
It honestly doesn't make too huge a difference what you bring. While I will readily admit that bringing 3-4 classes instead of 4 hunters will help you a lot, you could even do it with those 4 hunters for the most part. Some classes will make your life easier at a few bosses though - A priest (or two) will be handy with shackles. A warlock might come in handy clearing to Maiden or at Shade of Aran.
Most of what's plagueing you at the moment is purely the lack of experience and people running around in subpar gear.
QFT. realy nothing to add here.|||Quote:
QFT. realy nothing to add here.
i'd have to agree. It seems to me if most of your raid is in leveling blues then thats what is hurting you. you may be able to get away with the dps that way but your tanks and healers need to be in a majority of heroic gear or you are going to have trouble.|||i think the lack of experience part is even worse than the gear part. you just need to learn the instance. when you have it on farm and do twink runs you will see how much easier it goes.
for now, just get experience, try curator as often as you can, you will see that it gets easier and easier.|||Ok, Thank you for the replies.|||Quote:
2 People Who Can Tank Without Being 1-2 Shotted
2-3 Healers Who Can Keep Said Tanks Up (probably 3 healers in your case)
DPS
It honestly doesn't make too huge a difference what you bring. .
Not QFT at all. This is, of course, true for people who are geared and know the fights, but not for a group that's newish. I'm tired of people who can clear Kara in 3 hours acting like it was never hard for them. Maybe a few of you cleared it the first time in, but I'm betting most of us took some time. Paying attention to balance can make a difference for people just entering Kara even though it's not important for a raid that has it on farm.
To the OP - Dwarfenhelm's list is good, but let me generalize a bit...
I'd take more ranged dps than melee as a general guideline. Mages, priests and hunters all have useful CC. Figure out why you're dying and, if it's a lack of healing or that losing a healer leaves you with 1 and that person can't heal the raid for long enough, take 3 healers. If it's dps, take 2 healers.
Make sure people have reasonable gear (generally level 68-70 quest blues or normal instance blues) and have gemmed/enchanted the gear so that they're kitted out as well as they can be.
They should use cookie-cutter specs generally... this isn't the time for the rogue who has a weird pvp/pve hybrid etc. Classes all have specs that are known to be good for raiding, sometimes they have multiple such specs... people should adopt those specs. If they resist, well... if everyone was so good you'd be clearing it right? The rogue who insists that his Shadowstep build will be fine? Wrong... leave him out. Same for other classes.
Past group makeup and gear is knowing the fights and knowing how to deal with longer fights. For example, soloing and five mans probably haven't prepared your mana users for longer fights so they need to learn to pot early so the cooldown is available if they need it late in the fight. Priests should use their Shadowfiend early so the cooldown is up again if needed, etc. Of course, people should come with health and mana pots, etc and come fully repaired.
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