We started our first night on vashj last night, it was a great feeling of accomplishment to even get there and the fight looks like a really fun challenge. Our best attempt was 3 generators down which we were quite pleased about seeing as we only had 4 attempts or so.
The main problem we had was controlling the striders in P2.. We had one lock kiting but they either:
a) feared people before being picked up by the kiter (is this normal?)
b) killed the kiting lock (i think thats just down to him to get a rhythm going)
c) didn't die fast enough so a 2nd one spawned
a) and b) are easily solvable with practice I think but how can we get past c? What we are trying to do is get it dotted up to the max and have all the ranged dps burn it down asap. Is there something else we can do?|||Quote:
We started our first night on vashj last night, it was a great feeling of accomplishment to even get there and the fight looks like a really fun challenge. Our best attempt was 3 generators down which we were quite pleased about seeing as we only had 4 attempts or so.
The main problem we had was controlling the striders in P2.. We had one lock kiting but they either:
a) feared people before being picked up by the kiter (is this normal?)
b) killed the kiting lock (i think thats just down to him to get a rhythm going)
c) didn't die fast enough so a 2nd one spawned
a) and b) are easily solvable with practice I think but how can we get past c? What we are trying to do is get it dotted up to the max and have all the ranged dps burn it down asap. Is there something else we can do?
Gratz on getting to Vashj!
The strat for success is usually pretty constant accross the board, we use an ele shammy to kite the striders mainly because frost shock generates so much threat and mail>cloth. Inevitably, the kiter will take damage.
The trick to fearing before being picked up is pretty easily solved by having it called out the minute it spawns .. North/West/East/South.. that allows the kiter to get to the top of the stairs and pick it up and begin the kiting path around the platform. I assume you have hunters or other ranged dps handling the elementals and assigned to a specfic area and assigned healers on them.. they need to call it out the minute a strider spawns and the kiter has to get to it by the time it reaches the top of the stairs. Healers healing the center area should also move if they are in that initial pickup zone. Healers healing the raid members dealing with the elementals should also be aware of their positioning and move accordingly.
B and C are probably related in terms of a solution. We use 5-6 ranged dps assigned to 3 functions in phase 2.. kill the striders first and foremost and then dps down the elites in between striders. They also act as relays for cores and shutting generators. The elites are tank and spank, no big deal.. keep their tanks up and keep squishies away from the elites cleave. That's why that ranged group should be all out on the striders. Use nets, coex, and have mages throw an frostbolt into their rotation to keep movement of the strider minimized while kiting. If you dont have enough dps on the striders, raid adjustments will have to be made to compensate because having 2 striders up at any time is almost a certain wipe. Possibly try having a different kiter. Another tip is ranged dps placement. If the ranged dps'ing the strider are constantly having to move (either to follow or avoid the strider) then they are out of place. Have them placed in the center, away from the elites, at a location where their spells can hit the strider at most kiting locations. Focus fire on the strider from those assigned to dps it should have it down with about 20 seconds to spare which is then used to burn down elites or elementals if needed.|||One thing...
Kiter does not need to be able to slow. It only needs to be able to keep aggro and not die. Put there whoever you can trust to get the job done.|||Back when I was doing it our kiters used netherweave nets a lot. Might help|||Quote:
Back when I was doing it our kiters used netherweave nets a lot. Might help
Just be careful not to trap 'em next to something.
Paladins can HoJ them too.|||Quote:
Just be careful not to trap 'em next to something.
Looking into this solved a lot of problems for us. Netting them next to a generator obstructs the corepassing path, leaves less room for the dps on elementals at that spot and will often make the generator inaccessible. Getting a second strider at the end of P2 because you can't reach the last working generator is not fun..
Good stunning/netting is vital for good strider dps. Make sure people don't throw all their stuns at once when it is in a good place to be stunned. Make a rotation or just tell them to pay attention to any existing nets/stuns.
The elemental dps should also keep track of when the striders spawn so they can avoid the spawnpoints.|||As it goes, I specced elemental and did the kiting tonight, as our regular kiter (one of our affliction locks) wasn't available. It was the first time that we'd used a shammy. The other locks in the raid had tried kiting before, but never quite got the hang of it- despite some of them being great players, just not kiters at heart.
The first attempt was messy, partly because the kiting was a bit crappy, partly because people hadn't got in the rhythm of the core throwing. However, on the second attempt, it worked like a charm. Sure, I will make a neater job of it next time, and use a cleaner kite path, but essentially, it was a success.
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Good stunning/netting is vital for good strider dps. Make sure people don't throw all their stuns at once when it is in a good place to be stunned. Make a rotation or just tell them to pay attention to any existing nets/stuns.
No it isn't, actually :-)
A net when the strider first spawns is a huge help if the kiter is running to get in position. However, after that, I found that any stuns/FNs/anything else were just a bonus- time for me to chill out and throw some actual DPS.. this is where the use of a shammy just makes things simpler. Of course, every bit of help was welcome, but it was fine when people were busy doing other things, too. I'd really rather that our pallies were free to concentrate on healing if someone needs it, for example.
In terms of knowing where the strider is, we divide the circular dias into four numbered areas- and people call out where the tainted elementals and striders spawn, via the area number. If they are people who don't talk on ventrilo, we have them make a macro before the fight for their area, so they can spam it to tell the raid, so the RL can announce it.
Shaman kiter is a huge win- as your primary aggro ability (frost shock) also has a 50% slowing effect- so you just keep on spamming it, running away, dropping a lightning bolt/chain lightning (depending on what's cooled), rinse and repeat. It means that even if no other person has nets or similar cooled, you can handle it yourself- as long as you're getting heals. What I did was pick up the strider with FS, and once I had got a bolt or two down, I'd call out "go go strider!" on ventrilo, so people knew they could start nuking. Helps if people are using Omen, of course- as shammies can't taunt.
The only problem that I had was being hit by mindblasts. I am considering getting the s1 elemental gloves for the shock range bonus, and putting a threat enchant on them for this fight. Boar's speed on boots or a run speed metagem are a must- just for your own blood pressure.
In short- if you have a shaman who has an elemental set, and who you trust- ask them to have a go. It's much less complex.
(Even though I have never been in a raid as elemental before, and all the spell rotations and keybinds were totally unfamiliar to me, was all a bit exciting- usually I am a healer. It was all a bit exciting, and felt like a lot of pressure, but damn, it was fun)|||I guess it might have something to do with our strider dps sucking at positioning themselves ;) Our striderkiter (lock) rarely has any problems picking them up when they spawn, but we're getting very good at reporting them and not getting instagibbed at the spawnpoint. I play a hunter so this has a bit of "don't net it in my stair"-PoV as well, hehe.
Our strider dps also has a tendency to go "AAHAAAHHAHA!! Strider! KIEEEL!" without giving the kiter much time to build threat which has resulted in some involuntary striderkiting..
Gonna try respeccing a shaman for kiting some time :)|||Quote:
I guess it might have something to do with our strider dps sucking at positioning themselves ;) Our striderkiter (lock) rarely has any problems picking them up when they spawn, but we're getting very good at reporting them and not getting instagibbed at the spawnpoint. I play a hunter so this has a bit of "don't net it in my stair"-PoV as well, hehe.
Remember to drop frost traps in the kite zone - buys your kiters some time too
of course one time I was heading back to dps an elemental and the muppet kiting threw a net and i got crit for 23k|||Quote:
As it goes, I specced elemental and did the kiting tonight, as our regular kiter (one of our affliction locks) wasn't available. It was the first time that we'd used a shammy. The other locks in the raid had tried kiting before, but never quite got the hang of it- despite some of them being great players, just not kiters at heart.
Sorry for cutting out the rest of your message, but I bolded the really really important part.
Don't put people there who won't manage.
I repeat it doesn't make a lick of difference who kites. Sure, some classes have an easier time than others. But ... if you had one of those 'locks be an Elemental Shaman instead, they still wouldn't get it done.
For all I care, you can use a Balance Druid to kite. Someone else can slow them anyway - the important thing is that it gets kited (and properly !) and that people don't draw aggro whilst keeling it dead.
Don't force your SPriest / Lock / EShaman to kite if they don't feel comfortable and can't manage.
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