Laying down the law

Hi People,

first of all - if this post is in the wrong forum - sorry. Please direct me to the right place and I will move on.

My guild has had a functioning Kara team for a while now. Clearing Kara is down to a one night operation and we are quite happy with our progress. We have started to set up a Kara B team and now we are having some problems. It SEEMS that some of the newer players have joined the guild to raid Kara but aren't ready for it (KaraB is a mix of people who have been raiding with KaraA for a while and new people). They either don't seem geared sufficiently or don't play well enough. We currently dont have any firm requirements stat or gear wise in order to raid because it was never an issue with our A team (we had about 16-18 who rotated through).

So people - can I get some help coming up with some clear and fair guild rules?



Does your guild have any cookie cutter requirements stat/spec/gear wise that could help me out? eg min requirements for new players to join your guild/raid with your guild.. that sort of thing. Basically how can you tell if someone is ready gear wise. I am looking for all classes/functions so Tank, off tank, melee dps, main heal, off heal, range dps (caster or hunter).

And apart from clear requirements - what raiding rules do you implement during a run? eg no talking on the vent channel during boss fight/loot allocation, what do you do about someone who AFKs all the time, or disconnects a lot (this is a problem with two of our players), being on time... Basically your guild rules/laws/expectations.

Anything you have that could help me to lay down the law would be appreciated. Once I have an idea how the players measure up in this way we can address playstyles :)

Thanks for your help.|||We have a trial period for our recrutes in which the class officer looks at spec, gear and cycles during combat. We give them 2 weeks to prove themselves / adapt their playstyle and if they aren't ready for it after 2 weeks we let them go.

Might be a good idea to split this job over you officer's (if you have them) they usually have the best idea on what the performance of their class should be and how to improve someone.|||So no specific requirements to get a trial? You will take em in green OL gear and let em try?|||I don't think most progression-minded guilds would accept people in mostly green Outlands gear. Blue gear is easy enough to get from instances and group quests. If a player hasn't taken the initiative to get themselves geared up by doing group quests and instances (and even BGs), it is unlikely that they will be an asset in Kara.|||If you get group B a good geared tank (from group A), it will be a lot easier for them. If they still make a mess of it, they are just bad :)

My guild does Kara runs with alts, but we always bring a good tank (one of those that can't be critted/crushed), or it will be a long evening.|||Quote:








So no specific requirements to get a trial? You will take em in green OL gear and let em try?




Well, our guild is progressing in MH and we have T5 on farm. so what we do is require minimum T4 gear. They can pick up their role in the T5 content without too much trouble and we don't have to go back in content to gear them up. Once we dorp T5 and focus solely on T6 we will on recrute T5 geared people etc.

This obivously doesn't count for your situation and I might have missed the point in my previous post but we have the officers decide on min gea requirements. I personally didn't care if they were in green, blue, purple or orange gear. What I did care for were some specific stats. I am the rogue class leader so I checked on min AP, hit and crit.

I can look it up for you but I think i had 1400 AP, 20% crit, 150 hit as a min requirement. Pretty harsh requirements mind you.|||if you want to progress then id saylook at gear of every player who applies and see if they have any wrong spec gear for a start. hunters in spell dam gear or mages with melee crit gems is always a good indicator the player doesnt understand the class they play.

the gear needs to be on par with the instance/raid you are tryig to clear. dont bother with people dressed in greens for t4 raids and if your going for t5 raids then make sure the players are in t4 or similar gear.

then check the gems they use. are they vender gems ? (dont bother recruiting) are they cheap green qual gems ? (give trial and ask them to sort out)

and what enchants do they have ?. the players with no enchants as a rule dont care about getting better. and are the enchants suitable for the class. ie. hunters with mongoose shouldnt be touched with a barge pole

its so easy now to gear up for raids. the market economy on most realms is oozing with boe epics or blues on par with t4 gear and 5 man dungeons are so easy as well as having easy to do heroics and god badge reward gear. a lot of players should be able to gear up for kara and gruuls in only a few weeks of playing after hitting 70|||Gear is a nice clear indication of what people are like.

Crap gear, crap gems ? Crap player.

Okay gems, okay gear ? Might be worth a shot.

Good gear, good gems, good enchants, good application, good trial ? Huzzah - new guild mate.

You got trials for a reason - use 'em. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you took someone in for a trial, he's automatically in the guild. Kick them out if they're ignoramuses. Or just bad at their job. Or have an atrocious attitude.

A trial means just that, not an auto-accept, welcome in guild jobbie.|||In our guild, we don't allow people who have more that 2 greens run Kara. We tell them to run 5 mans until they have only 2 greens.|||For Kara these are pretty good minimums for classes i know:

I would say across the board 8k hps and 7k mana for non tanks.

For caster dps 800 +spell dmg. For those with crit builds crit 17% minimum (incl talents).

For healers 1100 +heal and 200 mp/5 for those it applies to.

These can all be hit in top end instance blues. If people can't put together these stats at minimum they just don't care and aren't going to be the raider you're looking for.

More than gear though, player familiarity and attention makes or breaks boss fights. Vent is the a big thing here. It sets the tone of the raid. If it's fun and loose people don't take it as seriously which is great if you all know what you're doing and have no trouble with the bosses. But like a football team after losing - the bus should be quiet if you're getting spanked. People will focus more. It can be hard to rein it in if you say "only on bosses". Make sure you have someone explaining the fights and taking questions before hand. Designate someone to call out phases and important events (like stopping shade's casting).