Thursday, April 19, 2012

Lady Vashj!

OKAY so Vashj round one!

Wow, phase 1 is remarkably easy. I think we had someone die in phase 1 one time.

Then the party begins >.<

Heres some problems we had.

Strider kiter dies. Practice should fix that.

Picking up nagas. This is a big problem. They spawn, we have the group who it spawned near call it out. Sometimes it goes to the middle, thats great. Sometimes it stops at the top of the stair, then attacks a nearby healer. Most times us tanks can get the elite before someone dies as long as its called out quickly. But, other times there is a STRIDER right there and we cant pick elite up. Make a choice: let a healer die from naga, or run into a strider and get feared away, and sometimes people die because your feared anyway.

Random people get feared by strider >.< healers in the middle hanging out near generators, melees, prot warriors chasing nagas. Its crazy!

Not enough agro on striders to go all out. Seems any class we tried, isnt putting enough out. DPS on strider seriously has to hold back. Omen is also acting funny for a lot of people on the strider. Neither the lock nor the elemental shaman were putting enough agro. This encourages me to put hunters on striders instead, since they can FD.

We are thinking of using our searing pain spec leo warlock to kite the strider as well, with the same setup. Thats mad agro. But when he tanks leo, hes standing still... see. The elemental shaman worked 'nice' but, hes not on every day. So if we went that route, we'd be somewhat limited

Striders are only 50% when a new one spawns. This is our biggest problem. We tried several setups.

8 DPS on elementals and cores (two people, four zones)

4 melees on naga

1 Kiter

3 strider DPS.

Wasnt happening. We tried several things.

3 strider DPS are warlocks for dots. Locks alone couldnt do it. Even if they go all out, they pull agro on the strider.

3 strider DPS are hunters, locks throw dots when comes near. This a little better, they can feign death but still no where near the dps required to down a strider.

"All ranged pot shot the strider as it goes past". Not happening. Our problems went from "striders" to "just about everything wrong" and lost our elemental/tainted core performance.

Basically, strider dps is no where NEAR close.

A strider has 1700000 life. So to down it in 50 seconds, you'd need a lot of dps to do that =/

So, I thought I'd switch it up like so

8 DPS on elementals and cores (two people, four zones)

2 melees on naga

1 Kiter

5 ranged strider DPS.

Even with 5, thats 680 dps per person. Feasible, yes. But while turning, sometimes moving? If three people had it 50% when a new one spawned, 5 would have it at 17% right? lol. I think a bigger problem with it, is holding back agro =/

I even thought, maybe we could take 1-2 dps off the stairs and move them to striders. Easy enough, it would be

6 DPS on elementals and cores (two people, three zones)

2 melees on naga

1 Kiter

7 ranged strider DPS.

Now, some people are saying, their area is super easy and they have no trouble with elementals and cores. Other areas, are like a stream of elementals heading for vashj. Particularly, groups with little burst damage. I HAD to move a few melee off nagas to elementals, and ranged on elementals moved to striders.

Class compositions. Hard part is knowing what classes are good at elementals, and whats good at striders.

Seem the s-priests team was slipping on elementals.

But rogue+mage team blew them away

But rogue+rogue team is fail

Lock+other really cleans house

Hunters good at cores... but needed them for misdirects and FD on striders. Or use the locks?

>.<

So, theres a million ways of doing it, I see. Most the reading info I've found is completely different from the last >.< One said, "we have 6 aff warlocks doing elementals". Oh cmon... 6 locks? Geez|||there are 4 spawn points around the stairs. we have 4 3man teams. one ranged DD, one melee DD, one healer. they should be enugh for the elementals and also for the tainted elementals. the healer of each team is up on the stairs, while the DD's nuke the elementals down. When we get a core, the melee ( who stood close to it ) sends the core to the healer ( who is up on the stairs ) which sends it to someone in the middle who turns the core in.

the part of picking up the nagas, random people getting feared and the kiter dieing are all down to practice. you have 12 people on elemental duty, the rest is up in the middle and taking care of the rest of the mobs. they need to stand around neatly organised so the kiter has enugh place for kiting. we have everyone in the middle, with the warlocks just doting up everything that comes up there. ALL warlock up in the middle, the hunters and mages can take care of the elementals. have warlocks dot everything, nagas and striders, while the melee stay on the nagas.

we had locks kiting the striders, but to be honest i dont realy know what they did to keep the agro.|||That sounds about right.

We got two DPS + a healer team, and the core goes

DPS -----> Their Healer ------> Middle.

We have healers in the middle assigned to "hang around the generator". If no ones their, they call it out on vent. As MT, I help relay the nagas to the OT, and I sometimes get cores thrown to me, or run to a generator if necessary. Playing "helperton" really, in phase 2.

Their healer needs to stay on the stairs (away from strider!) until their team has a core, then check first (if strider!) and wait for it to pass if needed.

We rock at cores, really! Just.... strider really really sux =(

I think Im gonna have to put a couple melees on elementals to get the needed strider DPS from ranged players|||I will paint two pictures for you. =)

Start of phase two is like high school study hall. Everyone working and busy. All is quite. A core is turned in. A naga is tanked. Not a whole lot to see or anyone talking.

A strider spawns.

Armageddon, people running in the streets waving their arms and screaming, buildings and cars being blown up. People pointing at it screaming "IT TEH STRIDER AH MY GOD" pew pew pew, strider walking through city, naga army behind him slaughtering people.

By the time the raid dies off, there is 3 striders up. LOL. And "die in a good spot" is impossible for a lot of people, since we are chain feared repeatedly over and over until dead. Heh|||Yeah people need to move away when its strider spawn time. When he is located, don't get close, net him, and deal with it.

And then it's all about doing enough damage on the naga's and the strider at the same time. If one is too slow you end up with 2 striders or 3 naga's and things go downhill.

We use 7 healers btw. Some extra DPS helps.|||In short: hunters and locks on elementals primarily, only have 6 dps on elementals. Around 7 strider dps should do it, you need more! Tell people not to get feared, that's just stupid and lacking situational awareness 90% of the time.|||See, some say, warlocks on elemental duty.

Other say, warlocks on striders.

Some say 6 on elementals

Others say 8

6 might do it IF the warlocks are really "that good" at elementals

=S|||Quote:








See, some say, warlocks on elemental duty.

Other say, warlocks on striders.

Some say 6 on elementals

Others say 8

6 might do it IF the warlocks are really "that good" at elementals

=S




You really just need to find something that works for you. Evrything you here should be taken as guideline advice only. In the end a mage offered to respec for our 1st few vashj attempts. He kited successfully without losing aggro once.

One thing to remember about the elementals is that they have to die before they get to vashj, not before they get to the top of the stairs. If one or two get through with <50% health they can fairly easily be killed by the naga dps.

One thing that took a while to impress on our ranged dps up top was for them to stop dps on the naga and start on the strider as soon as it appeared. Once this got through to some tunnel-vision DPS the strider died a lot quicker. We have the 1st naga dps'd by all up top and fully dotted, then ranged dps up top switches to strider when it spawns. Any dps in range with a dot put it on first of all. Then the ranged dps nuked it down while the melee stayed on the naga. Naga dies, strider dies, next naga spawns, next strider spawns, rinse, repeat.|||Yamahaguy - go read the thread on the Elitist Jerks forums. It's massive and has tons of useful information that helped us get Vashj down.

The major problem is that you have several things going on at once and if one thing goes wrong, it'll screw up the rest. You need to find out the problem areas and deal with 'em one at a time.

I found it doesn't make a huge difference who you put on Elementals. Similarly, it doesn't make a huge difference how you deal with Nagas or who kites Striders.

The single most important bit is that it gets done and gets done properly. Some classes will have an easier time handling things, but that doesn't always correspond with how your guild's members' skill is scattered. Put the people with 360 degrees vision and nano-second reaction times on the important jobs. Don't put the sleepwalking Warlock on Elementals if he can't cope - even though Warlocks in general might be lauded as the prime choice.

People often say that on Vashj everyone needs to do their job. That's right, but some jobs are more vital than others.|||You gotta find what works with your raid.

In a way we do have 8 people on elementals but only 4 of them are on it full time. As a hunter I can relatively easily keep 1/4 of the stairs clean as long as there's not any tainted elementals but when one of those spawns I need backup. Track elementals is really nice there.

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