Loot division

Ok, I know there must be a post about it somewhere but since I cant find it I decided to make a new post.

My guild is a casual raiding guild. We do not have a minimum attendence rating. We are doing 25 man since a few days and are a bit lost on how best to do the loot division. So I thought I would ask you guys for opinions.

We do not want dkp probably, because of the no raid attendence thing. We are doing normal no whine rolling in 10 mans, but are thinking about having a bit more control over the 25 man division.

Do any of you have a good idea of how to divide the loot, with rolling or other methodes without using dkp?

Greets, Shanna|||Loot Council would work, but I'd seriously advise you to look at one of the several DKP systems out there.

The council things tend to give more drama than an HBO series.

Rolling inevitably will lead to whining as well.

DKP can be setup in a multitude of ways - no attendance does not need to feature in your system. What DKP in short does is reward those people who helped you learn the fights and are present a lot, as opposed to the people who stepped in when it's a certain kill and got lucky on the roll.|||Quote:








Loot Council would work, but I'd seriously advise you to look at one of the several DKP systems out there.




Could you please tell what Loot Council is exactly? How does it work?




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What DKP in short does is reward those people who helped you learn the fights and are present a lot, as opposed to the people who stepped in when it's a certain kill and got lucky on the roll.




My point was we DO NOT want to reward those that are present a lot. We would just like to know if there are alternative solutions to DKP. Do anyone know of any?

Shanna|||There are very good reasons for using a DKP system of some sort. I really can't see any reason why you don't want to reward attendance tbh. Bringing as many of the same people as possible to a raid is a big plus when learning any encounter. Bringing a new raid means you'll have to learn the encounter over again.

Another point is that people expect to get rewarded for the effort they put in. If showing up doesn't help you'll have big problems holding the guild together.

To answer your question more directly I think you'll have to look into loot councils

http://www.wowwiki.com/Loot_Council

I recommend using some sort of dkp however. You can still overule who gets what if it doesn't feel right, but it should be used very sparingly. We do it when people clearly won't be able to use the item for raiding and somebody else that can wants it.|||Quote:








My point was we DO NOT want to reward those that are present a lot.




Why not? That seems counterproductive and does not reward those that are committed to your guild. Don't forget, committed guild members are what hold a guild together - but they need to feel like their commitment has given them something that the guy that just joined does not get. Without committed members, your guild will break up. And if you're not rewarding commitment, then that positive mentality that you're getting from the members may soon change as they don't feel appreciated.

So Joe hs been with you from day one when you started the guild (meaning he's most likely ran people in instances or at least ran with them when he didn't necessarily want to, he's helped others with quests etc), he comes to every raid, has helped the main group learn the encounters, shows up on time and stays till the end. Jimmy, who just joined the guild yesterday, started raiding with you b/c your **insert class** had to quit or his schedule changed or whatever. Jimmy is generally 5-10 mins late (making the entire raid wait) he learned the encounter with his previous guild (not a big deal - BUT he didn't go through the struggle, repair and pot costs, possible frustration, and late nights of learning the encounter with the rest of you), and he often has to go right at the end of the raid (depending on his bed time) leaving you to find another **insert class** on the fly.

But you want Jimmy to have the same rights to loot as Joe? Wtf? Joe has seriously earned his chance at the loot - what has Jimmy done?

IMO this means that eventually Joe is gonna find a guild that WILL reward his commitment and time that he extends to other guildies and the guild itself. Then all you'll have is a bunch of Jimmies that want something for nothing, because you have been rewarding them this way, and this is what they are starting to expect (show up once = get phat lootz [it doesn't matter if you're a regular raider]). At this point, you have a guild of loot whores, whiners, and people that space out or leave raids early or whenever they don't get what they want.
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My point was we DO NOT want to reward those that are present a lot.




If you gave a person who attended ONE raid something I've been trying to get for ten, I'd be very upset with you. Please consider rethinking your strategy, or outlining what you DO wish to reward.

If someone can come for one raid and take loot over someone who wipes alot with the guild to learn new things, you'll motivate bad behavior.


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Another point is that people expect to get rewarded for the effort they put in. If showing up doesn't help you'll have big problems holding the guild together.






Yep/

If you give the single raid person the same chance as the person who spent blood and sweat to get the guild there, you'll soon have trouble filling the 25-mans.|||Given your parameters, I'd advise Suicide Kings (SK). You basically make a list of everyone in the guild...start with a random roll if you like. When loot drops, everyone who wants it says so...and the top person (king) on the list gets it. That person drops to the bottom of everyone present (suicides), and everyone present moves up one rung on the latter.

The KEY factor is that only the people present rotate...those not there retain their positions; the others jump around them. Thus, you are not penalized for not being there...but you also get less loot as you, well, have to BE there to get loot right?

Here is an explicit example of a rotation in a 4 person raid of 8 guildmates.

Present members: Arnhold, Celia, Davin and Harmin.

Non-present members: Bethic, Edd, Forny and Gunther.

Initial Ranking: A B C D E F G H

The Broken Sword drops and both Celia and Davin want it. Celia is higher and wins.

New Ranking: A B D H E F G C



Notice how the underlined members, those not present, retain their exact same positions? They lose nothing by not being present. But those who are there DO gain something...Celia won a new sword, Arnhold retained his #1 spot and both Davin and Harmin climbed the ladder to a higher spot.



There are addons that will assist managing this. And you can make it more complicated by having separate ladders for tier tokens vs general loot if you like. New members typically come in on the bottom.

Good luck with the raiding.|||Quote:










The KEY factor is that only the people present rotate...those not there retain their positions; the others jump around them.




Interesting system....It has some merit, and appeal.|||dkp.

not rewarding people for commetment is like shooting yourself in your own knee. You want comitted people.

those with less attendeance will also get dkp points, just not as fast as the more attendeant ones. they will get items sooner or later aswell. Dkp is fair.|||If you're avoid dkp because of the complexity (fixed price vs bid, etc) you could use the SK method above or you could try a method that my guild has used a bit which is a weighted roll

Everyone starts with a normal 1-100 roll. If something drops and you want it, you roll. If you attend a raid and don't win anything (either because you didn't roll or lost the roll), you gain points. Let's say 10 points for this discussion. So, next raid, something drops, you roll 10-110. This gives you a slight advantage over the person who won something or wasn't there the last time. When you win something, your points reset to zero.

This has some advantages - no one has to manage bidding, pricing items, etc. It also has some disadvantages:

someone who doesn't really care about an item since it's just a minor upgrade can outroll someone for whom the item would be a major upgrade.

Someone could roll a 1-100 and hit a 96.... and someone could roll 80-180 and hit 88, losing out and perhaps losing a valuable upgrade to someone who is there for the first time.

I think you *do* want to give people an incentive to raid and to raid regularly. At the same time, you don't want people who can make it fewer times falling so far behind that they can never get any loot. There are DKP systems that compensate for this.