Howdy,
What kind of loot procedure should a guild choose? A very important issue!
I think there are a few major points to consider. I have always felt DKP should be earned per hour spent raiding with the guild. When an item drops, Guild members can bid on the items they want with the DKP earned. Time spent online helping the guild will lead to more items. Total DKP is stored up over time. If you play you will get items. Guild members tend to stay for the long term. Not a bad way of running things. Very fair.
You can leave the loot up to chance. Everytime a class appropriate item drops, players roll for the winner. Guild members could put in a very low amount of time and get great rewards. While other members could spend weeks, and never roll high enough to get a single item. I am not a fan of this way of playing. Guild members are short term and could just up and leave after getting a good item. Very Greedy.
The third style would be to equip your most active members with the best gear first. All further runs become easier, and the loot begins to come in more consistently for the light play members. This would be the most selfless way of running the guild. Start passing around the items based on the need of the group. If it isn't going to make the runs easier, why give the tank yet another epic 2 hander? Two well equipped tanks are a lot more usefull. The chances that an equipped tank will be online for your future runs are a lot higher. This option may only be a choice if playing with your close friends. Most of the time its greed before need. The needs of the many mean very little in most cases. Totally selfless, needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one in many cases. My favorite!
What system do you and your friends use?
Happy Hunting!
Erin|||DKP on long term is a guild destroyer imho. Biggest reason people leave a guild is when they feel they're not treated equally, When I'm raiding I make the same effort as everyone else in the raid so I should have the same chance as everyone on loot distribution.
When you're using dkp; people with the highest dkp number are usually people close to guildmaster, They get priority on raids so they get to raid more than casual or new members, in time the gear difference between them and other guild members grow wide, eventually high geared people always get picked up for raids because of their good gear so chances for low geared people to obtain better gear goes lower and lower , they start to feel they're not treated equally leave the guild soon guild master can't find enough people to do any raids since low geared members left and high geared people eventually leave for better guilds because they can't do enough raids for lack of people and guild disbands.
I've been in many guilds with equal loot distribution and they all worked fine. As long as you're treating every member of your guild equally you shouldn't worry about people leaving.|||Quote:
DKP on long term is a guild destroyer imho. Biggest reason people leave a guild is when they feel they're not treated equally, When I'm raiding I make the same effort as everyone else in the raid so I should have the same chance as everyone on loot distribution.
When you're using dkp; people with the highest dkp number are usually people close to guildmaster, They get priority on raids so they get to raid more than casual or new members, in time the gear difference between them and other guild members grow wide, eventually high geared people always get picked up for raids because of their good gear so chances for low geared people to obtain better gear goes lower and lower , they start to feel they're not treated equally leave the guild soon guild master can't find enough people to do any raids since low geared members left and high geared people eventually leave for better guilds because they can't do enough raids for lack of people and guild disbands.
I've been in many guilds with equal loot distribution and they all worked fine. As long as you're treating every member of your guild equally you shouldn't worry about people leaving.
There is no such thing as equal loot distribution. If you had the same items guaranteed to drop, certainly, but what happens to "equal" when the omg once in a blue, blue moon item drops? It's not going to be equal, only one person is going to get it.|||Quote:
There is no such thing as equal loot distribution. If you had the same items guaranteed to drop, certainly, but what happens to "equal" when the omg once in a blue, blue moon item drops? It's not going to be equal, only one person is going to get it.
By equal loot distribution I meant everyone in the raid who needs a dropped item has the same chance to acquire it with other raid members.|||Quote:
By equal loot distribution I meant everyone in the raid who needs a dropped item has the same chance to acquire it with other raid members.
So youall roll.|||Quote:
So youall roll.
On my realm It's generally roll for main spec if you need, if no main spec needs then it's roll for offspec if no offspec needs it's for de, then either raid leader raidrolls for shard or everyone rolls for shard.|||Quote:
On my realm It's generally roll for main spec if you need, if no main spec needs then it's roll for offspec if no offspec needs it's for de, then either raid leader raidrolls for shard or everyone rolls for shard.
Hey...works for me, considering I have extraordinarily good luck when I roll. Sucks for the poor sod who doesn't, which is what dkp or a modified dkp as my guild uses helps protect against. There's a notable unfortunate in my guild who has NEVER gotten higher than a 15 when rolling on a tier token. I guess he's just screwed, though. That's fine. I guess he just doesn't need gear, and we should have never given him that warglaive.|||There are a lot of issues with loot distributions and a number of dkp systems that sort them in different ways. I've been lucky enough to use a custom system throughout TBC and up untill now, but I've seen a lot of the other ones as well. There are a number of things to consider when chosing what system to go for. First of all you have to decide what aims you have for the guild.
The bleeding edge guilds work fine with just handing out loot to whatever benefits the guild the most, but then again those people don't play for loot. You probably want to balance it out like main spec>off spec. Some people give the tank prio on gear as well, although this shouldn't really be required with the current content.
One of the main issues with dkp is inflation. Long running members get high dkp pools and get to pick whatever they want at all times. This causes new members and people that miss a raid or two fall far behind on gear as they won't be able to overcome the gap. This can be sorted by bidding (closed preferably) or set the score back to 0 once someone gets something.
Different pools of dkp for different instances is also a good idea. You don't want people hoarding dkp in an easy instance and reaping the rewards somewhere else. This is a big point once the next tier of instances is released.
I know going back to 0 sounds drastic, but you want a high rotation in who gets gear. Bidding actually is pretty close to resetting in practice. You also want to prevent people from holding out for big upgrades in whatever way you can. If people refuse to pick up upgrades because they (and everyone else) wants that 15% drop, best in slot item you will get a gimped raid.
Awarding dkp for time spent is a good idea. At any rate you don't want to award dkp per item or boss kill with the current content as naxx is the easiest raid instance and gives insane amounts of dkp compared to Sartharion and Malygos. Even if these fights seem a bit far ahead now, you'll be there soon enough and at that point it's too late to change things.
Give dkp to people that sign up, are on time and stay available, but can't be fitted into the raid for whatever reason. We have a "quiet" channel on vent where we can get hold of people that tab out and do something else. If you are serious about progressing you should also consider picking the people that need gear once you have something on farm.
Lastly, DKP is meant to be a way of rewarding players in the most fair way possible. If it doesn't work out that way, you aren't using it properly. I disagree with Ozgurk on that part as rolling is random and statistically unfair. You'r not giving everyone equal chances, just randomly rewarding people based on luck and that's what won't work in the long run.|||with the way my guild runs dkp it awards those that put the effort in on progress nights with a lot more dkp than on farm runs. this way those who really push to get boss's on farm get more choice on loot than those who suddenly have family problems on wipe nights.
if we had raid rolls on loot then players who never seemed to be online for 4 hours of wipes trying to get maly sorted can have exactly the same chance on the t7.5 bit of loot they really want over a guild member that is really working towards guild progression.
i doubt any way of sorting loot is going to be seen as fair by everyone. but in my eyes dkp awards those who raid the most. one thing you need to be carefull of though is the amount of guild members vs those that raid every week.
dkp works great in my guild but we have 38 raid members and only use dkp in 25 man raids. all of our members raid 2-3 times min a week so they all get a fair crack at the loot. in a guild with 70+ members you need to have an ultra fair way of giving raid spots|||In order to answer the OP's question you need to decide what kind of a raiding guild you are. Start from the premise that you want to help the raid when giving out loot.
Basically, if you're more casual and the 10 man raids are like a heroic to you and you don't care that much if you clear them every week... do rolls. I'd limit loot to 1 item per mainspec per run and open it if no one wants something (I'd rather give someone 2 items than DE it...)
If you're trying for some progression in either the 10s or 25s, do DKP and make sure it decays or is otherwise limited so people cannot build up insurmountable leads. DKP makes people think "Do I want to use my roll on that item?" whereas /roll doesn't. This rewards people for showing up each week - consistent performers are more likely to get gear than someone who's there sometimes... and that's what you need for progression because it's the people who show up week in and week out that will help you progress.
A final variant is that you can do rolls in 10 man and dkp in 25s - the 10 mans are basically used as a gear stepping stone to the 25s. That gives people who are getting into raiding an easier and quicker path to gear up so they can help you in 25s.
I don't like rewarding people for hours played - i prefer to award dkp for boss kills. The only issue with that is if you have people needed to leave before they get to a boss, but so far the trash is so minimal that that shouldn't be an issue. The nice thing about awarding DKP on boss kills is it rewards the right thing - success. Hours in raid reward just being there even if people are afking, screwing around etc.
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