Monday, April 16, 2012

Duel specs

Greetings all,

i meant to post this thread on the official wow forums but sth seems to be wrong with my account so this is the next best thing.

As a curse in disguise the new duel spec system will be a pile of dung baked in a cake surved to us by blizzard. we might think at first wow cool im gonna be both a resto and feral druid or both marksman and bm hunter but this careless so called "improvement" might destroy our raiding infra structure.

now i havent raided much 25 mans and im not an 1337 player

but im a firm believer in the concept of "you get what you spec" meaning that when raiding you will get items which complement your spec (i.e. resto, tank, spellpower, etc) and rarely you get an opportunity to roll on sth that you could use if you change specs if no one else in the raid needs it.

what im getting at is that with players looking to make 2 sets of gear for dual specs many problems will follow starting with:

1- needing on more loot and less epiks to go around

2-im not very familiar with the dkp system as i said be4 but im sure that would be affected too

3- would cause inflation in AH for both non BoP epiks and trade endgame trade mats as the demand will be higher

maybe im wrong about this whole thing but if i am right blizzard would need to take two measures in order to prevent the collapse of the social raiding system and probably the DKP system

1- is to increase loot drops which ImO is impossible but the basic idea is that the most important boss drops in dungeons and raids drops in duplicates

2- to modify or create new items that compliment 2 talent specs at the same time which also seems far fetched

3- increase trade mats and non BoP epics drop rate which is partly doable

these are the only things i can think of right now but i will try to update this thread as often as i can and i urge everyone to take into consideration the advantages and disadvantages of this new feature and possible solutions

the this might be the very end of the world... of warcraft

here is the official interveiw concerning this issue


Quote:




alent Dual Spec Q&A with Ghostcrawler

With the next content patch, we will be introducing a number of additions and changes to the game. One new feature in the works is the ability to set up two separate sets of talents, or "dual spec". While the complete feature may not be immediately available in the Public Test Realms (PTR) and specifics are still liable to change, we wanted to go over some questions with Senior Game Designer Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street to find out more.

Nethaera: What is dual speccing?

Ghostcrawler: Dual speccing is the ability to save two separate talent specs, glyphs, and action bars.



Nethaera: Why are we allowing players to dual spec after all this time?

Ghostcrawler: We really felt like this was a great way to increase the flexibility available to players and encourage them to take part in more aspects of the game. To use just one example, some players like to participate in both raids and Arenas, which is awesome behavior that we want to promote. But, there are some talents which are more useful in one part of the game than another. Currently, players have to pay respec costs and go through the process of setting up the desired talent spec and action bars whenever they switch.

The new system makes this a much more logical process, saving on time and cost and allowing players to easily move from one aspect of the game to another.

Nethaera: Who will be able to use it?

Ghostcrawler: Players who have reached the maximum level will be able to set up dual specs.

Nethaera: Why do players need to be max level in order to do this?

Ghostcrawler: We didn’t want to burden lower-level players with extra complexity as they’re working to level up and learn their class. But if the feature proves popular we might consider expanding it.

Nethaera: How will you be able to set up a dual spec?

Ghostcrawler: Players will be able to visit their trainer and pay a one-time fee to be able to use it.

Nethaera: How do you switch between specs?

Ghostcrawler: Players will be able to switch between their talent specs by visiting any Lexicon of Power provided they’ve paid for the ability to have a secondary spec. Lexicons of Power will be available in major cities, and inscribers will also be able to create a new item that summons one. Anyone can purchase this item, but it requires a ritual of several players to summon it for use by the party. It’s similar to a repair bot in that it will exist in the world for a short duration. It’s important to keep in mind that you will not be able to switch specs while in combat or Arenas. While you won’t be able to switch your spec without the Lexicon, you will still be able to look at your secondary spec whenever you want to.

Nethaera: Will solo players have the ability to switch their specs outside of the cities or will they still need to visit a Lexicon of Power?

Ghostcrawler: Solo players will still need to go into the city to visit the Lexicon of Power to switch their talent spec or will need to get together with other players to summon one in.

Nethaera: Is the item that allows you to summon a Lexicon of Power reusable, or is it used up?

Ghostcrawler: We haven’t made a final decision on that yet, and will be evaluating how it works on the PTR.

Nethaera: Can I respec only one of my talent sets, or will I need to respec them both if I reset one?

Ghostcrawler: When you reset your talents, it will look at the spec you currently have in use as the talent set you want to change.

Nethaera: Will you be able to switch gear easily to match your spec?

Ghostcrawler: At the same time we implement dual specs, we will also be setting up a gear system. The feature is called “Gear Manager.” It can also be used to just swap weapons or trinkets or put on that tuxedo to strut around town. It will not automatically switch your gear when you change your talent spec, but it will allow for an easy gear change between them. The feature may not be fully functional immediately in the PTR, but we’ll have more information to share about it before too much longer.

Nethaera: What about hunters? Often their pet talents are set up to match the talents of the hunter. Will they be able to switch their pet specs as well?

Ghostcrawler: We will wipe the pet talents. However we are going to remove the respec cost for pet talents so that players won’t feel like they need to jump through an additional hoop to respec their pet. In addition, we are going to provide hunters a new core ability to let them remotely access their stable on a long cooldown. This way if their exotic pet heads off to the stable, they will be able to get a different pet. We hope to be able to discuss this new spell in more detail when we get a little further along.

Nethaera: Will you be able to change your Glyphs as well?

Ghostcrawler: Glyphs will be tied to each talent spec so that if you switch between them, so too will the Glyphs. You’ll notice the UI will have changed a little bit so that the Glyph panes show up alongside the Talent panes now that they are associated.

Nethaera: What about hotbars? Will players be able to save them for the talent spec they’re running?

Ghostcrawler: Yes, you will be able to save hotbars and use them with your talent specs. It just saves your bars at the same time as it saves the glyphs and talents. If you want to switch to your other action bar, you will need to change specs.

Nethaera: Is there a way for players to choose their talents without them being saved? Currently, once you spend your talent point, it’s spent unless you pay the respec cost again.

Ghostcrawler: With the dual spec feature, we are going to allow players who respec to configure all their talents before they get saved. They will be able to allocate the points, then choose if they want to use that as their spec, rather than needing to carefully diagram out their talents ahead of time. This will allow players a little more freedom when deciding on the talents they want to pick and avoid costly mistakes.

Nethaera: Will players be confined to only setting up two specs?

Ghostcrawler: We will be launching the feature with just two specs, but depending on how we feel it works out, we might consider additional specs in the future.

Nethaera: When can players expect to try out dual specs?

Ghostcrawler: Players will be able to try out the dual spec system on the Public Test Realms when they are made available. This has been a pretty big project with a lot of people working toward making it a reality in the game. We’ll definitely be watching the feedback and looking for ways of making sure the system works the way we all envisioned it to.






You think you decide the world of warcraft is our world and not blizzards if this will ruin the fun of the game then we might be able to sway their opinions be4 the change is implemented

and if we conclude that this change will not be in our favour than we can petition or ask blizzard to come up with a solution to reduce the damage as much as possible because the main point of this system is to increase gameplay enjoyment so it defeats its purpose if its gonna make ppl unhappy

i know that blizzard has the best intentions in mind but i think they should think about the effect this might have on gameplay. :D

"question everything"

amrkamel|||Personally, I think there's TONS of epics to go around, and too many are being sharded at the current state, and even previous state, the game was/is at. I think this is a step in the right direction to get all gear used in 10 mans, and definately in 5-mans. Sure, if you have no plate wearing class (Bear tank, etc.) then obviously plate will not be used either way, but that leather +healing gear will no longer be thrown off to the side for that tanking Druid until he is FORCED to heal once in a great while, or until he replaces it like I've done with many many items on my chars.|||point taken but i dont think endgame players will have any troubles with it but raiding noobs (like myself) might get dissappointed when im healing and some other guy wants the healing gear that dropped for his offspec i might get it in the end but this might cause conflicts

heres a scenario that might happen:

10 man group defeat boss

healing ring +35 drops ( for example lets say im +100 healing and my ring is +30 {base = 70})

im resto and main healer so i should roll on it with other healers also

druid tank: "can i need this for my duel spec?"

me : " no dude only healers should roll if u want to get gear you should take things no one needs"

druid tank: " yah but ur ring is +30 and this is +35 heal u dont really need it"

me : " our main spec is healing so we get priority"

druid tank: "dude this sux (and the guy has a fit on how its unfair)"

do we really need this kind of hastle there are already alot of ppl who want offspec gear(not that theres anything wrong with that as long as other mainspec guys agree)

just for the record i just said bear tank by random it could be anything just 1st thing that came to mind and dont mean to offend bear tanks



:D

cheers|||you may want to read the 5 pages long thread about loot in the community section.|||TBH, the druid tank got no right to have a fit because he got priority at tanking items, as you got on healing.

I personally would never roll on a healing item unless I'm there as healer or none of the healers needs it. I think this Dual-Spec will be good for WoW, and if Blizz gets around to make it avalible for lower level chars and not just 80's, I think we would see an increase in Tanks and healers at lower levels, making it less of a pain to go to level up instances.|||i cant wait for thios duel spec to br brought in. playing fury war i have still build up a very nice tank set and often go and tank on ad-hoc 10 man runs, roll on the day i can go ansd swap my spec and glyphs round nice and easy. thern we have fights like thadius where you run with 2 or maybe 3 tanks yet they are wasted on this boss, so just before youpull swap specover and the tank becomes a dps and same with healers, 25 man e only 3 jeal;ers for thadius so the others can swap to dps. ok so they wont have the gear that the main specs will have but they will still have great gear due to the fact they have worked on it and taken unwanted gear in 10 and 25 man raids.

there is no need to roll on of spec gear over a main spec but if you run enough heroics buy the crafted gear and do raids then it wont take you long to get your seond set sorted. if you think this is to much hastle then dont bother with duel spec the choice is yours|||I don't think the gear issue will be much different than what it is now. Smart guilds will still make people declare a "main" spec. Some guilds my tier it out even more. They might have main spec, secondary spec, and offspec catagories for loot priority now.

For pugs, you would just need to set up the rules in advance. (There are many ways to do that, and the "norm" for your server will develop over time.)

Perhaps being a cloth healer makes this less scary for me. As it stands I'm already competing with every other cloth wearer (and sometimes all casters) for gear. I haven't had any real issues gearing up under those conditions (it did take me a while to get a proper weapon since that fell under the category of competing with all casters) so I suspect that the dual speccing won't suddenly cause mass riots over loot.|||Quote:








i cant wait for thios duel spec to br brought in. playing fury war i have still build up a very nice tank set and often go and tank on ad-hoc 10 man runs, roll on the day i can go ansd swap my spec and glyphs round nice and easy. thern we have fights like thadius where you run with 2 or maybe 3 tanks yet they are wasted on this boss, so just before youpull swap specover and the tank becomes a dps and same with healers, 25 man e only 3 jeal;ers for thadius so the others can swap to dps.




u do know that u can only change specs in front of a lexicon of power and must be out of combat do u?

anyway now that ive seen the different points of view it may not be such a bad idea :D|||Quote:








u do know that u can only change specs in front of a lexicon of power and must be out of combat do u?

anyway now that ive seen the different points of view it may not be such a bad idea :D




According to what you yourself quoted, the lexicon of power will be able to be summoned by an appropriate player scribe, "like it was a bot", so this will be usuable midraid (in between bosses, before bosses, etc) for groups with a scribe.|||Quote:








for groups with a scribe.




Not even neccesary, seeing as how the item that summons the lexicon can be bought by anyone. :)

Anyway, back on-topic.. in the example you stated above with you healing and the Druid tanking, just replace "dual spec" with "off spec" and you've got the current situation. I highly doubt things will change that much, and you're seeing problems ahead that will most likely not arise.

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