[:1]I've been reading this site for a while, but this is the first time I post here.
Today my casual guild finally downed Flame Leviation on 10-man version. I was one of the siege tanks. After countless wipes Ironsoul and a really nice priest helm dropped, the new lvl 80 priest needed against me and got it. (the main tank lost the roll on Ironsoul to a new lvl 80 DK too).
Earlier this week I was in Naxx. We downed Loatheb and the priest/lock/pally tier shoulders dropped. The new lvl 80 lock got the tier shoulders (he also got 3 other items, and that was his first lvl 80 run)
Two weeks ago we managed to kill KT for the first time and my tier helm token dropped. I was very excited because I've never gotten any tier token drops. However the noob pally won the roll against me and another lock in the guild despite the fact he died within the first 3 minutes of the fight, contributed almost 0 heals and dps, and chain-blocked one of our best dps during the fight. (He doesn't have DBM -_-)
I've been lvl 80 for several months now and I'm confident to say I am the best and the most reliable healer in the guild. I healed their asses thru all the heroics and naxx yet some noob lvl 80s just randomly show up to raid and take my loots. I feel so robbed. :( I havent gotten any loots from guild runs for weeks now. The guild leader wanted to get more people for 25man raids and is totally oblivious of the situation. (or just doesn't care) How should I break this issue to the guild leader?
Thanks, any sugguestions or comments are welcome :)|||I was tempted to post a similar topic a while back as my guild is having the same issue. People bringing their casual alts to raids and rolling on loot against people trying to gear mains. Also people who are completely clueless about their class getting lootz only because someone else told them. (a druid healer in my guild who didn't know what SPIRIT did springs to mind)
What would be a suitable loot distribution alternative? in my guild we have a core of about 15 players with about 35 characters collectively so not sure something like DKP would work.|||I suggest your dont beat around the bush go straight to your Guild Leader and tell them how you fell if they tell you off GQuit.|||A new system is easy to come up with for 10 mans using /roll - getting people to do it will not be. Here are the rules:
1) Mainspec before off. Main spec is what you play most of the time. I'm usually shadow on my priest, I can go holy. Shadow's my main spec though. If I switch to being mostly a healer I should then get to say Holy (or Disc) is my main spec. But someone can't roll on main and off spec stuff with equal priority.
2) Mains before alts. You give a drop to someone's main toon before someone else's alt regardless of roll. No sudden 'but I'm making this my new main' when sexy loot drops.
Period. The new people who outrolled you? Too bad, tough luck. You wouldn't have been able to raid if those people weren't there so they get the same shot as you assuming they're mains and not rolling for offspec. If you want to reward attendance or the fact that you helped get the guild to where it is now you need some form of DKP. Before you do that, think about what it will mean for new people... if they can never get loot, why raid with you?|||What Clevins said is pretty much how my guild handles it also for 10 man loot. Also we don't waste a lot of time on it either. The raid leader pops up a raid warning on what is being rolled on and gives a "not-so-slow" count to 3 in raid chat; only main specs roll on the first time through. If no one takes it, a second roll for off-spec is called for with another count through to three. If no one takes it, then I pick it up for DE (being the designated one on Bancduese for that job). Again, as Clevins noted, mains get gear over better rolls by alts. We do allow a roll winner to pass to the next highest roll if they so desire (as sometimes folks can make mistakes).
That is about as fair as it can get without being overly complicated. Sometimes a new guild member comes in and wins a roll that some older member wanted but as we constantly try to point out, it is only fair. It probably helps that we are a small guild and fairly close knit, having moved from one server to another as a group with the original guild having been formed back before raiding occurred (though only two of us are left from those long ago days).
As a very small guild, sometimes we have to pug the 10th spot and even then, we try to make sure the pickup player gets a fair shot at the loot--no better than anyone else, but no worse either. That extra person means the raid goes forward rather than it sits out a night of running because only nine were available.|||The simple way that it should be done in my personal opinion is...
A. If you've been in the guild a long time, you should generally have a minor boost to rolls once per run, of your choice. Nothing +50 or anything. Just like, +5. You have to state it before rolls as well.
B. DKP. Sure, it's unfair when it comes to the fact that officers run 99% of all raids, AKA they have 100 DKP per run (Or whatever) and 3 times a week, but you can only go once a week.
C. (Which actually should be implimented into all of my points.) MAIN spec rolls ONLY initially. No one else can roll ("But I tank once every month for my friends usually..." not a valid excuse.) then off-specs if no main spec rolls.|||The guild my DK is in was having some similar issues. Unfortuantely, in a casual style guild where people raid as they can (or desire) it's very hard to strike a balance between being fair to the people who always come and fair to the people that can't come as often.
There are a couple of different issues you are dealing with.
The alt/new 80 issue can be very frustrating, and is something that the guild just has to work out how to handle. The best thing to do is have some minimum gear requirements. Nothing too severe, but enough that the person has to put in some non-raiding effort. Things like requiring that they are actively working on Sons of Hodir rep and the rep they need for their helm enchant. Require that any epic gear be enchanted or they don't raid. If they have good rep items available, make sure they are working towards them. If there is crafted gear that they can use, get them farming the mats for it. Some simple stuff like that makes people feel a bit more involved in their character and makes the "old timers" feel like they are helping people who will be contributing raiders, not just loot leaches.
As for actual loot rules, my DKs casual guild has gone to the following system:
Everyone is allowed 1 "need" win for the night, and 3 total items for the night. (After that, you can only get items that would otherwise be shards.) They also limit the total number of need rolls to 2, regardless of wining. (I'm not a fan of the last rule, but if you have some people who will need roll on anything until they win, it might be necessary.) This makes people focus on what gear they really want and helps spread the loot around. Newer players are likely to use their need rolls up earlier since they need more gear often leaving the more veteran players to fight out the need rolls later on. It's not perfect by any means, but it's one of the simpler solutions for a casual guild.
We don't force a main spec before offspec rule (although people generally will defer) simply because many people in the guild do fulfill multiple rolls depending on the fight or who logged on and what roll is needed. While some people have a clear main and offspec, some people do not.
(Also, just to clarify, loot is master looter, and the raid leader asks for need rolls in raid, and if no one rolls moves on to ask for greed rolls on the item.)|||just use DKP...
The little work you have to do to set it up is nothing compared to the work of having every raid member complain all the time and core people leaving and the guild break up and find a new guild and start from scratch.|||The first thing I generally do if I disagree with a loot system is sign up to a random forum and beg people for sympathy, i'd do that and see how it turns out for you :D.|||Quote:
just use DKP...
The little work you have to do to set it up is nothing compared to the work of having every raid member complain all the time and core people leaving and the guild break up and find a new guild and start from scratch.
Ive been in guilds that used DKP and they broke up because new members would horde their DKP and spend it on the cool items instead of spending it in upgrades that they need.
Every system has a flaw there is no perfect system, unless you can play 10 accounts and once and run your self through :D
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